Mar
7

Cigars and the Michigan Smoking Ban

If you have first-hand knowledge of how this law is affecting a cigar-friendly location in Michigan, please comment and tell us what you know!

cigars michigansmoking banA long-standing fear of mine is going to come true on May 1st, 2010 in Michigan. The smoking ban that was signed into law in December of last year will have a drastic impact on the cigar-friendly bars and restaurants in Michigan that are listed on CigarPlaces.com.

For many establishments that people frequent, I suspect the line is somewhat gray with regards to what constitutes a cigar bar that would be exempt from the smoking ban.

Cigar Bar Exceptions

Are there any places that are not required to comply with the smoke free law?
Yes. Cigar bars, tobacco specialty retail stores, and the gaming floors of casinos may be granted exemptions from the smoke free law.


How can my bar become a cigar bar?

Cigar bars must file an affidavit for an exemption with the Michigan Department of Community Health on or before June 1, 2010 and must renew that exemption by January 31 of each subsequent year. The cigar bar must also meet the following requirements:

  • Gross Revenue: The cigar bar must demonstrate that it generated 10% or more of its total gross annual income from the on-site sale of cigars and the rental of on-site humidors.
  • Physically Separated: The cigar bar must be located on premises that are physically separated from any areas of the same or adjacent establishment in which smoking is prohibited. Physically separated means an area that is enclosed on all sides by any combination of solid walls, windows, or doors that extend from floor to ceiling. Smoke may not infiltrate into those nonsmoking areas.
  • Humidor: The cigar bar must have an installed, on-site humidor. A humidor means an enclosure or fixture that is stationary and used for the humidification of cigars that is on the premises of the establishment.
  • No Minors: The establishment must not allow individuals under the age of eighteen to enter during the time the cigar bar is open for business.
  • Retail: The cigar bar must allow only the smoking of cigars on the premises that retail for over $1.00 per cigar.
  • Cigars Only: The cigar bar must prohibit the smoking of all other tobacco products.

(The excerpt above is from the Michigan Smoke Free Law – Frequently Asked Questions document on the Michigan.gov website)

Exempt Bars & Restaurants that will Stay Cigar Friendly

I just started my guerrilla research (asking bar and restaurant owners how the smoking ban will affect them) last week. All of the infromation gathered here will be used to update the map on CigarPlaces.com so we can be certain that we have a good resource for finding cigar-friendly locations after May 1st, 2010.

Verified Cigar Friendly

got rocks cigar friendly

Places That Could Stay Cigar Friendly

These need to be verified.  If you have first-hand knowledge, please let us know!

If you know of a location that will still be cigar-friendly, please leave a comment and let me know; I’ll add it to the list.  I’m hoping this post will help soften the blow that all of us cigar smokers will experience on May 1st.

EDITED: On April 6th to add the location’s from Mike’s comment.

EDITED: Visited Big Rock Chophouse on 4/9/2010 and confirmed that Got Rocks (the upstairs cigar/martini lounge) will be exempt and cigar-friendly.  You can also now rent humidor space.  Added Camancho at Comerica Park per Mike’s comment.

EDITED: Added Sue’s Coffee House in St. Claire Michigan and Leaf, Barley & Vine in Brighton Michigan to the list as confirmed cigar bars per Mike’s comments.

EDITED: Added Corner Cigar Bar in West Bloomfield on 5/13/10 per Mike’s recommendation.

http://cigarplaces.com/cigarplace.aspx?id=39Robu

Posted by Chris Cigar Friendly Places Subscribe to RSS feed
  • Mike

    The Sequoia (cigar) Lounge inside the Rewood Lodge in Flint expects to be exempt. Ditto for The Cellar in Brighton and La Doche Vita in Ann Arbor. The Belicoso Cafe in Wyandotte and Stix Martinis and Cigars are 2 places that meet the requirements easily.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    Thanks Mike – I updated the list to add the places you mentioned.

    I wasn’t able to find anything about The Cellar in Brighton (doesn’t show up in Google Maps or anything). Do you have a link or an address for it?

  • Mike

    Sorry– It’s the Downtown Main Martini Bar. “The Cellar” is their smoking lounge, which has humidor rental lockers. They should be OK.

    Web site:

    http://www.downtownmain.com

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    Got it – I thought that might be it. Added it to the list as well!

  • Mike

    Chris, here is another cigar bar that according to a Grand Valley State University student newspaper article will be exempt: The Stables Martini & Cigar Bar in Bay City:

    http://www.doreriverview.com/

    BTW, have you contacted/visited the Fuse lounge in Rochester lately to ensure they’re exempt? I’ve never been, but I wonder about some of these places like Fuse. Even if they sell plenty of cigars, they’re supposed to have an on-site humidor and rent humidor space — typically humidified lockers — to be exempt.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    Thanks for adding Stables to the list, Mike!

    The owner of Fuse is a friend of mine. I talked to him probably a month ago, and he said that he was good-to-go. It was before I had researched the requirements, so I couldn’t ask him specifically how he was getting exempt status.

    I was in there last Friday night too, but I didn’t have a chance to talk to him. He does have a decent size humidor for a bar (floor to ceiling); maybe he’ll add humidified lockers.

    It’d be a shame to see that place go without cigar smoking. The cigar room is amazing.

  • Mike

    I work close to there. I’ll have to check it out. Do they require you to buy yyour sticks there — or will they on May 1?

    Stix Downriver instituted that policy a few months ago in expectation of the ban and its 10% revenue requirement. If it’s really busy they may not enforce it, but don’t sit at the bar and pull out your own cigar. But Stix prices are very reasonable for a cigar bar.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    Definitely check it out. The main room is a nice swanky martini lounge, and the cigar room is decked out with a big plasma and leather couches.

    It’s pretty tame in the evenings, and on the weekends it will get packed around 11pm.

    He doesn’t have a rule about buying your sticks there now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he did after May 1st. I can’t see any other way. Or at least a cutting fee of a few dollars.

    It’d be nice to see the local cigar community come together to make sure the place stays exempt. I know I’d be willing to pay a few bucks to have a nice place to enjoy a cigar in the winter.

  • Mike

    Have you been following the stories in the papers that under the state’s interpretataion, bar/restaurant patios are included in the ban? That appears to have caught a lot of bar owners by surprise.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    I haven’t seen the stories yet; going to go do a search right now.

    It always surprises me when people are surprised though. Give it a few years. We won’t be able to enjoy a cigar outside anywhere, or inside our own homes.

    One of my favorite spots to have a cigar is on the patio at Kona Grill in Troy. I know a lot of the staff there was surprised that smoking was going to be banned on the semi-outside area there. No surprise here …

  • Mike

    I’ve been to Kona many times. When did they find out about the patio ban? Other than hearing from a bar owners lobbyists that a ban on patio smoking was possible a year ago, I never saw anything about bans on bar patios.

    Apparently, it has to do with the way Michigan licenses food service estblishments and the new law is written. Permits make no differentiation between the inside of such places and the outside if food/drink is served, based on an old attorney general’s opinion. And the law bans smoking “in food service establishments.”

    But the new law also says smoking is only banned in “enclosed, indoor areas,” so I think a legal challenge to the old AG opinion is possible.

    There isn’t much time, though.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    Not sure when the management found out about the patio ban, but I was there about two weeks ago and they had just held a meeting with the wait staff. Our waiter was just voicing how shocked she was that we wouldn’t be able to smoke on the patio.

    It would be really nice if decks/patios/rooftop bars were exempt!

  • Mike

    Yeah. The bar owners lobby may still be working on it — or not.

    Oakland County’s health dept head just said they don’t have the manpower to police smoking ban violators. Could be interesting to see how some bars react to that news.

    BTW, since its Detroit Tigers opening day, there is one more verified-exempt place I forgot about — Camacho Cigar Bar at Comerica Park.

    http://camachocigars.com/camacho-vip-club/

  • Mike

    Chris, is this list mostly for cigar bars or places with cigar lounges (no food/drink) as well?

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    I say let’s make it as all-inclusive as we can. If you know of places with cigar lounges, let’s list `em!

  • Mike

    Smoky’s Fine Cigars in downtown Royal Oak built a lounge about 2 years ago.

    In fact, most of the Smoky’s Fine Cigars in the area have cigar lounges.

  • Mike

    Chris, you may want to recheck those exempt places. The state’s smoke-free Web site now says that NO FOOD or DRINK is allowed in cigar bars? How can it be a “bar” of any kind if alcohol/beverages are not allowed?

    From the updated Web site:

    “No food or drink may be served or allowed in the cigar bar. Employees may not serve food or drinks in the cigar bar area.”

    None of the cigar bars I know of will qualify under those rules. That would be a “smoking room.” It would not be a cigar bar.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    I think it’s a “cigar bar,” in the context that you go there to smoke a cigar, as opposed to a traditional bar that serves alcohol, where cigars are also smoked (if that makes sense). I think “smoking room” is more descriptive, but “cigar bar” might sound more sexy. :)

    All of the restaurants/bars that are listed have partitioned-off cigar rooms, I believe (Fuse, Big Rock Chophouse/Got Rocks, etc).

    Some of the other locations are dedicated cigar bars/smoking rooms (La Casa, Churchills, 1701).

    There are quite a few that are questionable though (places that I haven’t visited personally).

    I’m meeting a business partner at Robusto’s for a cigar later this week. I’m going to talk to them while I’m down there and see what they have to say. A search for “Robusto’s cigar exempt” on Google will yield article after article that states that they’re exempt from the Michigan smoking ban, but I just can’t see how it’s possible. They might have enough revenue to meet the cigar sales/humidor requirements (they have a LOT of rented humidor space), but they serve alcohol and food in the same space that people smoke cigars.

    Do they serve food/alcohol at Camancho at Comerica Park? Wonder what their plans are.

  • Mike

    But if these new rules stand, you will not be able to even carrry in a drink to these rooms.

    Until this revised guidance was issued this week, cigar bar operators, lobbyists and supportive lawmakers that I had talked or seen quotes from envisioned exempt Michigan cigar bars as they are in all smoking ban states that allow them: a place dedicated to cigars and cocktails. Some serve small plates of food. Waitstaff works there.

    All the places that hustled to open before the May 1 deadline operated under this model. But I do not think any place calling itself a cigar bar could meet these critera. Certainly not Stix, Camacho Cigar Bar at Comerica or the Belicoso Cafe that I have visited.

    If you go to the state’s Web site where they give a drawing of how a “cigar bar” area would work, they do not envision a “cigar bar” as a stand-alone facility — which is what most are in the states I have been to that have them.

    A room where patrons go to smoke cigars without ANY food or beverages — no water, no booze and no employees — is not a cigar “bar.” It is not a “bar” of any type. It is a smoking room. I would never go to such a place. I cannot smoke a cigar without drinking at least a bottle of water between puffs.

    Until the new guidelines were posted, there was nothing that said a cigar bar could not serve food. Cigar bars and Detroit’s casinos were the only types of “food service establishments” exempt from the ban.

    I’m near certain now that a lawsut may ensue. I read that the attorney general has been asked his opinion on this issue. At the time, I didn’t know why. Now I think I do.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    Will a lawyer that likes cigars please stand up? :)

    This is where it gets complicated, because we need to fully understand the meaning of the word “exempt.” If “exempt” means that an establishment that qualifies as a cigar bar is not required to follow the regulations outlined in the ban, then serving food or beverages shouldn’t be a problem.

    It would seem to me that an exemption would mean, “as long as you meet these criteria, the ban does not apply to your establishment.”

    The criteria listed for qualifying as a cigar bar don’t include anything about not serving food or beverages.

  • Mike

    Exactly. Since I posted yesterday, I have been in communication with a lobbyist and lawmaker who believe it will be straightened without a lawsuit or going back to the legislature. So all those exempt places, presuming they sell enough cigars, should be OK.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    Wow, that’s big news!

  • Mike

    The clarification memo is now online. Food and drink are clearly allowed in cigar bars:

    http://www.michigan.gov/docume.....8835_7.pdf

    The memo is from the MDCH director. I wonder who at the office interpreted otherwise.

  • Mike

    Here’s another place, a coffee shop, with a cigar lounge that qualifies as a cigar bar:

    Sue’s Coffee House

    St. Claire, Mich.

    suescoffeehouse.com‎

  • Mike

    Here is another place that just announced on Facebook they are exempt from the May 1 smoking ban: Leaf, Barley and Vine in downtown Brighton.

    They have a seperate smoking lounge and walk-in humidor:

    http://www.leafbarleyvine.com/

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    That’s awesome — good finds. Leaf, Barley & Vine looks like a great place, from the pictures that they have on their Facebook page.

    Going to have to check it out the next time I’m out that way.

  • Mike

    The manager pointed out that as a cigar bar, they are also allowed to have smoking on their patio.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    Here’s another article published recently about a place opening on Pontiac Trail and Orchard Lake Rd – The Corner Cigar Bar.

    http://www.spinalcolumnonline......Trail.html

  • Mike

    Chris, did you verify that they ever opened? The article is from March and includes some inaccuracies: State doesn’t allow food in cigar bars, etc.

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    I haven’t verified. One of the guys on the forums at CigarAsylum drove by it last week and looked in the windows. Said it wasn’t open but it looked nice inside.

    Haven’t heard anything besides that.

  • Mike

    They do have a Facebook page that appears updated. Maybe I’ll drive out there this weekend or next week.

  • Mike

    I’m planning on checking out the Corner Cigar Bar tonight.

  • Mike

    I visited the Corner Cigar Bar in West Bloomfield. They just opened with their liquor license a week ago — although I guess they think they make enough in tobacco sales to be exempt.

    Add them to the list, Chris, but as of now, I’m skeptical of their ability to maintin the income threshold. Their humidor is not yet stocked much. And they had no business.

    Here’s their Facebook page:

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/.....2618220150

  • http://www.cigarplaces.com Chris

    Sounds good – I need to get out that way soon and check it out. It sounds nice.

    I know the guys at CigarAsylum are talking about doing their monthly herf out there. Not sure how many of them there are, but maybe it will help out sales if there’s a big group.

    I agree though; 10% is a huge number to overcome.

    Does the place have an address? I want to add it to the map on CigarPlaces.com, too.

  • Mike

    From my e-mails with a cigar industry lobbyist involved in the exemptions fight last year and talks to the owners of some cigar bars, 10% is not a problem for places set up properly that work to maintain cigar sales.

    But if you don’t keep an eye on it, it can slip. I know a bar in Denver that lost its smoking permit — and Colorado only has a 5% requirement.

    At Corner Cigar Bar, I brought and smoked my own cigar, since the humidor was not yet ready. Corner Cigar Bar does not have humidor lockers; they have desktop humidors for rent inside a walk-in humidor. They cost $70/month, with a partial rebate for cigars purchased from them. That seems high to me for a small humidor. Stix in Southgate has real humidor lockers for about $15/month.

    They’re not quite ready yet. Your group may want to wait or have soomeone scope it out first. It was dusty, still being decorated, etc.

    I can’t find an exact address, either. They’re in a strip mall at the corner of Orchard Lake Road and Pontiac Trail.

  • Mike

    Nectar’s Wine Bar, in a strip mall that shares the parking lot, is at 4135 Orchard Lake Road.

    The same people own the Corner Cigar Bar. Nectar’s has a sign in its window that says “Cigar bar” so it appears they are exempt as well. You might want to add that to the list.

    I didn’t go in there. It will be intesting to see if 2 cigar bars can survive.

  • Mr. Bojangles

    Amazingly, 336 Main in Plymouth is NOT exempt. Perhaps we should all stop by and ask the owner to get creative with his bookkeeping to gain an exemption?

  • Mike

    It’s been years since I visited. I thought I read they went non-smoking a couple years ago?

    Did they ever have humidor rentals? All I recall was a stand-alone humdidor with about a dozen boxes near the entrance.

    If they are not allowing smoking now, they have no intention of applying for an exemption.

  • Mike

    Chris, did you see that Got Rocks ulta lounge — or at least a part of it — at the Big Rock Chophouse has become a Diamond Crown cigar lounge? Have you been there recently? Do they serve food/drink as a cigar bar? Or is it just a smoking room?

    http://www.gotrocksultralounge.com/

  • Mike

    Found another cigar bar (not personally verified, but appear to easily meet the legal requirements):

    Le Cigar Emporium
    22263 Michigan Ave
    Dearborn, MI

    No website.

  • Mike

    The Sequoia cigar room at the Redwood Lodge in Flint has lost its cigar bar exemption. It did not meet the 10% sales threshold. Bummer if you were a locker member.

  • Mike F

    What do you know about Nectars Wine and Cigar Bar?

  • Mike

    Have not visited. They were located near the Corner Cigar Bar and had the same owners, I think. But the phone number for the Corner is disconected. Is it still open? Does Nectars still allow cigars?

  • Seaya89

    The Chop House in Ann Arbor is also still Cigar Friendly in the basement.  They do serve food down there as well. 

  • Anonymous

    Thanks Seaya89!  I added it to the map here:  http://cigarplaces.com/place/the-chop-house.aspx.  Looking forward to checking it out soon (I live about 45 minutes away from there).